Chatting about Doris

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by Lauren Benjamin » 28 Jan 2012 12:28 am

I totally agree with Michael because I am one who DID have coffee with Doris many times during the 1970s. And there are several more fans on this particular forum who were fortunate to meet and interact with Doris also. One such person actually wrote a book about her experiences as her live-in secretary. Ray danced with her and Howard had a slew of encounters. So, I'll speak for myself and tell you all that you would NOT be disappointed.

Will tell you a short little story about coffee with Doris, which exemplifies why she remained a curvy, but rail-thin woman that you might remember from season 1 of the Doris Day Show.

The usual "gang" was gathered with Doris around a small table at one of Doris' hang-outs in Beverly. It was time to order the usual Saturday morning coffee and goodie, which all did and then the waitress turned her attention to Doris to order. Doris said and I quote: "I'll have toast, LIGHTLY BUTTERED, with cinnamon." Can you imagine "lightly buttered"? I don't even think I knew what "lightly buttered" meant, as I had never used those words! Ha! As if a millimeter more of butter would have had Doris expanding into another size - perhaps size 1 to 2.

Everyone was served including the toast for Doris, but she complained politely that there was too much cinnamon on the toast and it burned her lips. I remember that story every time I reach for the cinnamon, but somehow I conveniently forget the "lightly buttered" part.

Lauren

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by anialek36 » 28 Jan 2012 02:14 am

A beautiful story Lauren I envy that you and others had the honor to know meet personally Doris Such meetings can not be forgotten, because such a meeting is in the heart until the end of life Unfortunately, I never meet with Doris. Well ... but you can always dream❤ Anyway in 1970 I wasn't even in this world Sorry for my English, but I hope that you understand what I wrote?

Greetings from Poland:) Ania

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by Lauren Benjamin » 28 Jan 2012 04:36 am

Ania~
Your English is better than some Americans I know!

Lauren

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by jmichael » 29 Jan 2012 03:26 pm

That's a great story, Lauren.

As a fan, I appreciate your discretion and the respectful way you recounted it.

Cheers,
Michael

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by Lauren Benjamin » 29 Jan 2012 11:38 pm

Thanks for the compliment, Michael. Another great banner!!

Lauren

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by paul » 30 Jan 2012 01:32 am

Lauren - I agree wholeheartedly with Michael about the story. You told it with such a touching sincerity that I felt as though I were there. Thanks for sharing that.

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by Lauren Benjamin » 30 Jan 2012 05:41 am

Thank you. But you, Paul, could write a book. I think I have about 7 photos of you in my collection standing or sitting next to Doris in various settings over a number of years. Weren't you the one who told me the story of Sydney Guillaroff (sp) and you in a car on Sunset Blvd? You called Doris and gave the phone to Sydney and he told Doris that she was his favorite actress that he had ever worked with during his vast career. That was a super compliment because I think he worked with about every actress in Hollywood. Wasn't he at MGM? I see his name on movie credits many times.

Lots of great stories from you!!!

Lauren

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by paul » 30 Jan 2012 12:53 pm

Thanks Lauren for the kind words. And yes, Sydney adored Doris Day. Between his first film in 1933 and his last (1994), he worked on more than 2,000 films, getting screen credit for about 1400. He was the first hairstylist to receive an on-screen credit (1939 - "The Women") and paved the way for others to also get credited. He worked with Miss Day on "Love Me or Leave Me", "Tunnel of Love", "Please Don't Eat the Daisies", "Jumbo" and "Where Were You When the Lights Went Out?". He also did her styles for "Julie" but did so for free as a favor for Miss Day. The budget for the film was very tight and Marty, the producer, did not want to add the extra to the budget that would have been added because of Sydney's fee. (This is similar to what Miss Day talked about in her autobio about Marty not wanting to pay additional monies on her films to have someone like Henry Mancini do the score and title song). Because Arwin was producing, the profit participation deal would start earlier if the budget were tighter. Sydney, however, had loved working with Doris Day on "Love Me or Leave Me" and so - gratis - almost unheard of in Hollywood - created her style for "Julie", and allowed one of his staff to be the credited stylist. Sydney was head of the MGM Hair Dept. but did some freelance work including cutting Ingrid Bergman's hair for "For Whom the Bells Toll" for which David O. Selznick paid him $ 20,000. He adored Doris Day and it was after we'd attended a screening of "Love Me or Leave Me" at the Vagabond Theatre in L.A. that he asked me for her number and called her to tell her she should have won an Oscar for the film and they reminisced about the picture. (This was in 1992). He said that Doris Day was the kindest person he'd ever worked with (among other things) and treated everyone - cast and crew with kindness, etc. But then we all know that for certain. I'm sure you could speak of many other instances, too, and are fortunate, like me and others to be able to carry those special memories around in our hearts forever.

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by howard » 30 Jan 2012 06:48 pm

Lauren, I agree with everyone about your DD tale. You described the experience so well. Like Paul, reading it, I was almost there myself. Great! And Paul ... it's always wonderful to hear your stories, and they are much appreciated!

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by Jas1 » 30 Jan 2012 09:07 pm

Love the stories from you guys who were lucky enough to get close to Miss Day, thanks for sharing.


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[webmaster]

I wonder why Doris never told Marty where to go when he stopped her from spending what was her own money?

[jmichael]

I wonder why Doris never told Marty where to go when he stopped her from spending what was her own money?

Well, I'm no expert or insider but I suspect it had a lot do with her need for a paternal figure to compensate for her father's betrayal and abandonment when she was a child. Those wounds rarely heal and we often choose partners in adult life to "fix" the damage done to us as children. Or the unfortunate reverse of that -- we choose people who perpetuate the damage because it's so deeply engrained in us.

Doris probably knew that Marty was both good and bad for her, but after two failed marriages, the possibility of another failure was more than she was able to deal with. Considering the time and her background, I can understand that. So she kept on working and chose not to confront him.

Paging Dr. Phil!

Michael

[Lauren Benjamin]

I agree with Michael's very, very adept evaluation. I might add that sadly his control extended beyond spending money. There is also the rumor that Doris wanted to adopt a little boy from the Boy Scout group, who she met during the filming of "That Jane from Maine" but Marty put the kabosh on that also.

The father-figure obsession may have finally disappeared with her marriage to Barry. His somewhat child-like antics (which cost her the marriage) and the age differential may be proof that she finally got off that father-figure pony.

Marty seemed to be always looking for ways to cut corners to a fault both in film and in their private life. Marty didn't want Doris to remodel the house. After his death, she remodeled. He also did not approve of her friendship with Billy DeWolf. After Marty died, Billy and Doris became close friends.

Daddy was no longer around to give orders. I doubt that Marty would recognize Doris at this point in time. It is absolutely amazing what she has accomplished in the years since his passing and most of it by herself.

Lauren

[webmaster]

Interesting Michael and Lauren. I came across the press-clipping below that sugests that things might have been a bit rocky between them at an early stage.



Thinking about it and considering what you've both said, my gut feeling is that she really loved him - and still does - and deferred to him as 'the man of the house', which was the value system she grew up with. One flaw in the father-figure theory is that her first two husbands weren't much older that her, were they?

[Lauren Benjamin]

Very good, Bryan. You make an excellent point. I only know what I know from reading and from what people have told me over the years about Marty that *Doris told them* - from the "horses' mouth" so to speak.

My own personal thoughts about Al and George:
It was said that Doris had many suitors in her late teens but they seemed "too easy" to her. She was attracted to Al because supposedly he seemed "hard to get." The "hard to get" may have been a demonstration of his pathology. She may have been seeing his depression (he later committed suicide), but didn't know it as she was so young. If the father issue came in there, I'm not aware, but perhaps it did because I think he was older. But it's just a guess.

I've always thought that Doris and George married perhaps too soon. They may have known about Les Brown's plans to retire and get off the road, which he did by 1946. They have have decided to marry because the Big Bands were having a hard time after the war. They both would have been planning on where to go when they retired from the band and that was Los Angeles. I think Doris was a couple of years older than George, but I could be mistaken.

The real "father issue" really seems apparent in her marriage to Marty with so many people talking about how he controlled her. The "straw that broke the camel's back" seemed to have been in Marty's fury at Terry. And, according to Doris' book, that began the problems between them.

Just some thoughts. I don't have time right now to revisit D's book or David's book, so would enjoy reading any thoughts by others.

Lauren

[jmichael]

One flaw in the father-figure theory is that her first two husbands weren't much older that her, were they?

True, but you don't have to be older to represent a father figure or be controlling in a relationship.

I agree with Lauren when she talks about the father figure need no longer being an issue by the time Doris married Barry. That marriage failed IMO because he was simply out of his league and made the fatal mistake of trying to impress her with his business acumen. He was sorely lacking in that regard and it became the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back in her fourth and final marriage.

Back to another comment by Lauren, I think Doris really blossomed after the Doris Day Show folded and she started getting out more socially and enjoyed living her life. Just look at her on the Johnny Carson show appearances sans bra and wearing those eye-popping, figure-hugging outfits. Ooh la la! To me, that was her making a bold statement about being ready for romance and not having to get permission or worry about disapproval from anyone (except Alma maybe). One reason why Doris wasn't that interested in performing then (again, strictly IMO) was because her life finally belonged to her after many years of being under Marty's thumb.

As for Marty, I will always have mixed feelings about him. He certainly steered her into lucrative film deals post-Warner Brothers and she made some of her most critically acclaimed films during that period. But his hang-ups with money and power undid him and caused her great harm financially. Thank God Doris was never one to turn to alcohol or drugs for escape and she eventually triumphed over all of the adversity.

Michael

[Lauren Benjamin]

Michael~
As usual, you are spot on and thoughts are well written. My issues with Barry is that he was responsible for taking Doris out of L.A. and up to Carmel. That was *his* favorite spot and, since Doris needed to get out of the house in Beverly, I'm sure he lobbied for Carmel.

Had Doris stayed in the Los Angeles area (if she could have afforded it), she probably would have made a film or two after her retirement. It's disheartening to think about.

Lauren

[paul]

Lauren - You are so right about Barry.

I met him several times and while his veneer was charming, something didn't feel right.

I remember the tabloids at the time referring to his "Fortress Mentality" and that he was keeping Doris away from longtime friends, and that may have been an instance in which the tabloids nailed it.

I agree that had she stayed in Los Angeles, she might have worked again. There were certainly lots of series offers including "Murder She Wrote". I think she was wise to decline Robert Stigwood's offer to appear in his film, "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" even for the reported 1.5 million for four days work but there were some good offers that never got beyond the talking stage including one from Robert Redford.

She loves Carmel and I know it has brought her much happiness but without Barry in the picture she might have remained on North Crescent.

[Lauren Benjamin]

It's always great to read what you have to say, Paul. I always learn something. Wonder why Doris *allowed* Barry to put her in the "fortress"? Back to the father issue?? Maybe she needed the rest.

Lauren

[ray]

Every time i see Murder She Wrote I think how perfect Doris would have been. Wish she did those proposed TV fims with the Murder She Wrote type theme. She turned down the scripts for those and don't know how she ever put up with the scripts and some story lines on her TV series. The Series saved her money wise but not career wise. I really think she was tired of making movies and was glad it was over and I miss the interviews we have had the last few months. But we have the CD and it means so much to her or she would not have done all those new interviews. Doris is still a Superstar without doing anything and that will always be.

[paul]

Hi Ray -

You may be right about her being tired.

I well remember the hoopla in the Fall of 1990 when ABC President, Brandon Stoddard announced that they'd signed Doris Day to do a series of television movies playing the same character. Al Ruddy, who co-produced "The Godfather" and a number of other film and television properties was attached to the project and ABC was anticipating a great success.

Army Archerd in Variety regularly reported on updates and interviewed Miss Day about progress on the project. Meetings were held to discuss scripts and then suddenly around 1992 they all stopped talking about it.

As fans, I know we'd have loved to see it but perhaps she just wanted to not go through all of the things you needed to go through as part of a film or series by the 1990's. It was a whole different world and I've a feeling that the 1991 tabloid stories about her being a "bag lady" was a reminder of how you are scrutinized in ways that rarely happened in the 50's and 60's.

Like you Ray, I often think of that extra something DD would have brought to "Murder She Wrote", meaning no disrespect for the talented Angela.

[ray]

The Doris Day show was so beneath Doris's talent. Some story lines were right up there with, My Mother The Car and the Phyliis Diller show. If Doris had scripts and writers like The Mary Tyler Moore show she would have been fine. Why did CBS give her such treatment? To her credit she still made the series a hit by name only if nothing else. Doris was THE career girl of the movies and Mary copied the formular on TV. Doris and Peter Lawford gave the last two seasons some zing. Doris has survived bad TV and crazy press with the tabloids and she has done it with class. What a feat!!!!

[ray]

Not that it matters now but if you look back at 1993 after the bag lady story which they apologized for. Doris appeared that year 1993 on Entertaiment Tonight, Vicki lawrence show and Good Morning America. So things looked promising for something to develop career wise. Something must have happened in 1994 when all was quiet again. Maybe Doris just felt enough was enough. Also in 1993 there was that Calamity jane viewing in Carmel which Doris appeared and met up with Berry Gordy. I think that was his name, correct me if I am wrong. He wrote a song for Doris years before and presented it to her then. 1980 tabloids screamed Doris a recluse then and that did not detour her from The Best friends series which was better than her CBS TV series. Best friends also gave us todays achievement with landing in the UK top and back on billboard with My Heart.

[Lauren Benjamin]

I agree with Ray about the writing on her TV show. Why oh why didn't Marty and or whomever was pulling the strings get top writers? I suspect money had all to do with it. And Doris on a FARM??? What was Marty thinking?

Good thing that Doris took herself out of the hay bin and into an office. While Doris had good sense about placement, the scripts were a bit wanting for such an incredible talent.

Lauren

[webmaster]

I remember being very disappointed when I first saw an episode of The Doris Day Show. I wasn't really following her career at that stage (it was the BBC eighties documentary "I Don't Even Like Apple Pie" that renewed my interest in her). What I liked about her best films was her ability to play different characters and make them totally believable - there was none of this in the role of Doris Martin (was that the character?) A friend gave me the box set of Series 1 as a birthday present and I didn't watch all of them. I know the show is very popular with many fans and that's great but it just doesn't have the appeal that her Hollywood films have for me.

[paul]

I watched every episode of the show when it first ran and enjoyed it on some levels. I thought the production values were very good for the time and far superior to a lot of sitcoms airing at the time. I thought the cast was good and that Miss Day worked well with the changing cast. I also thought it boasted some of the best guest stars on any show at the time. I loved the fact that some of Miss Day's former co-stars (John Gavin, Billy DeWolfe, Edward Andrews, Patrick O'Neal and others) as well as friends (Van Johnson, Estelle Winwood, Peter Lawford, etc.) appeared. I also really enjoyed the fact that she was a veritable fashion plate, sometimes changing outfits 8 or more times per episode. In addition, I really enjoyed the use of Miss Day's music as background music including "Au Revoir is Goodbye with a Smile", "Christmas Present", "There They Are", "Send Me No Flowers", "Caprice", "Sorry", et al. All of that being said, even as a teenager I didn't fool myself into thinking the writing was worthy of the biggest female box-office star in the world. It was too often predictable and pat. I sometimes wished that a Carl Reiner or Stanley Shapiro would write an episode. Compared to some of the other sitcoms airing in the late 60's and 70's, it was usually on a par although sometimes it was less so. When television changed so radically in the early 70's (Mary Tyler Moore, the Norman Lear shows), the writing then seemed even less interesting and some of the plot lines totally ridiculous. What made it never boring for me was Miss Day's ability to make you want to believe and the sincerity she projected even as she was forced to say some pretty dumb things. It's a shame that one of the re-vamps didn't consist of hiring a whole new set of really good writers. Bryan, if you focus solely on Miss Day and her interactions with others, there are some genuinely sweet and endearing moments. If you keep your expectations low, it's pleasant. I think that Ray, Lauren and probably many longtime fans had high expectations as did I when the show was first announced. After all - it was Doris Day. There are probably five or six episodes that I would highly recommend and when viewing them again, recently, I found myself actually laughing out loud - in one instance until the tears were streaming down my face. Sadly, those instances were rare.

[Lauren Benjamin]

Paul~
One awful fact is that the Doris Day Show was never in re-runs. I think that fact tells it all. It's just so sad. I feel so badly for Doris given her immense talents, warmth and personality. However, keep in mind that the show changed almost every year. I'm not so sure that the average viewer had patience for that. Doris, who was the producer, made just too many changes in place and personnel. I think TV viewers like to get the "know" the characters and get attached to them. Other shows have had a change in actors - MASH, for example, but not year after year.

Some changes were just too much. What happened to the kids, for example? And Doris' side kicks had more changes than a McDonald's menu.

At the Doris Day Convention (1988), Doris spoke to us for about an hour and I don't think the TV show was even mentioned much. Connie Edney was there. I think she lived on Doris' property and functioned as Doris' wardrobe person during the cable show. She probably left shortly after that, as the show had ended.

And....that show didn't do very well either. It's just sad. I so feel for Doris because her heart was in it.

Lauren

[paul]

Lauren - You are so right. I remember Edward Feldman, who was a producer along with Doris, on the show during the last two seasons, when the biggest changes occured. He sarcastically told a reporter at the annual CBS pre-season dinner, that he had suggested they film a bit in which it was explained that Buck the boys and Lord Nelson had all died when their car plunged off the Golden Gate Bridge on their way into San Francisco to visit Doris Martin. Reportedly Doris was furious at such a suggestion and mercifully it was never brought up again. I remember some people being angry that Rose Marie was off the show and that there was no longer that family connection that Buck and the boys brought. You're also right about the reruns. I remember looking forward to seeing the show in syndication but it didn't really happen.

As for the "Best Friends", which was so lovingly filmed....Doris looked amazing.....It was not available in every market. In 1985/86 cable was not what it is today and I know that Continental Cablevision that was big in the Northeast, did not have it as part of their package. It was also on CBN - then known as the Christian Broadcasting Network - and at the time it was not popular in some sectors because of its name. It seems hard to fathom today but there was still some prejudice at the time. I really think the show would have grown in a second season. Doris made a wonderful host and I thought the choice of guests was really good too. There was something so natural about the whole thing. It was so obvious that the show meant so much to Doris.

[ray]

Imagine if Murder She Wrote was developed and ready for Doris in 1968 when she made her TV debut. Would have had at least twelve years of guality shows. I consider Caprice her Murder She Wrote type vehicle and the Ballard Of Josie her made for TV film since it went almost directly to televison. Our dear departed Ralph loved Caprice as I did. Not to many people like it including Doris. If you break The Doris Day Show in two parts it doesn't seem so jumbled. The first three years a widow with two children and the last two years a cool single Lady. Actually it was two series. And Doris was at the peak of her beauty during these years. Best Friends was wonderful and Doris looked terrific but sad to say the timeing with Rock's death and being the CBN cable network put a damper on the show. But those new songs make up for all that and we can listen to them today with My Heart!

[howard]

The "Doris Day Show" was a huge disappointment for me. Even before it aired. I thought "why would such a huge movie star go into doing a sitcom?" (Marty Melcher strikes again!) But I did watch it faithfully week after week. There was still Doris' charm to look forward to. But the scripts were really saccharine, and not very realistic to boot. I was also disappointed about her practically non-singing role. What were they thinking? One of the great singers of the 20th Century and not putting that glorious voice to use? When she became an office gal I was hoping that she might, perhaps, get an evening or weekend job singing at a club. That would have brought the show up a notch or two. `And it might have resulted in more recording dates! So many missed opportunities in Dodo's career. And why didn't they put some great writers to use? Here's a huge star saddled with mediocre writing! "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," was great ... great all-around cast, and writing that showed everyone off to their best advantage. Why, oh why, couldn't Doris get the same treatment? I lamented over this. Anyway, it is what it is, and I looked forward to just spending time with my favorite gal each and every week.

[ray]

i used to cringe when Doris said groovey on The Doris Day Show to sound up to the minute and those white go go boots were a hoot! Doris could certainly camp it up. One episode i did like was when Doris Martin was moonlighting to buy Dr Lawrence ( Peter Lawford ) a cordless phone, cell phones were unheard of then. They came across as adult Lovers and sparked a romantic flare.CBS seemed like they were out to destroy her career totally but her book a few years later showed us what a real and talented woman she is no matter what material was thrown at her.

[webmaster]

Interesting piece on The Doris Day Show:

What a strange history this sitcom had - five years on the air (1968-1973) and four major format changes!

The show never should have happened. Admittedly "not a career minded person," Doris had no desire to do a TV show, in fact she was openly hostile to the idea. She'd been knocking out hit films and hot-selling record albums at a furious pace for two decades and felt she deserved a break from the business, maybe even retire altogether.

http://www.tvparty.com/70dorisday.html

[ray]

What about a gay version of Pillow Talk? Where the lover has to give up his collection of male trophies and settle down with one man. Like Brad did in Pillow Talk. Yea right like this could happen. Reel life is sometimes better than real life. And in real life this seldom happens, dam it!

[jmichael]

I can't add anything significant to what Lauren, Paul, Ray and Howard have already expressed. The show was not nearly what it should have been considering what Doris had accomplished in films. Maybe the best thing about the series was the fact that it restored her finances and gave her the means to sue Rosenthal for what was rightfully hers.

It still baffles me why the show wasn't better. Many of the writers and directors had done good work on shows like Andy Griffith, That Girl and Hogan's Heroes but very little of that magic made it to The Doris Day Show. Maybe instead of changing the format and the cast so often, they should have started over after the first season with a brand new creative team and hired younger, hungrier writers and directors who would have injected a more topical edge to the comedy elements. So much of the show was formulaic and painfully predictable. At times, the only real joy was watching Clara Bixby show everyone else how to rise above stale material. And that eventually became difficult to watch because Doris could get by on her innate charm and fashion sense for only so many episodes. If you compare it to shows like MTM or Bob Newhart, you see that those shows were fueled by good writing and strong ensemble casts, all of whom had three dimensional characters to play. Most of the laughs came from the characters, not dropping them into ridiculous situations to see how they would get out of them.

One thing that always bothered me was that many people equated this show with her talent in film. They didn't bother or care enough to acknowledge what she had achieved in the movies. It seemed really unfair to me at the time.

Michael