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John M
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Unread post by John M »

Jas1 wrote:Can I ask all you big time film buffs out there where the plethora of old films are? When you look at the vaious film books, The Warner Bros/ MGM, RKO Story etc and all the films that were made each year, yet you see so few of them on TV etc, wonder what has happened to them all?
Jas, there are several reasons for their absence. One of the main ones is lack of preservation: many of them are lost forever. Here are some shocking facts:

80% (minimum) of all silent films are lost forever. Their negatives and prints have totally dissolved and fallen apart. Of the 40 films Theda Bara made, only 3 and 1/2 survive today.

40%-50% of all sound films made prior to 1949, the year safety film was widely introduced, are likewise lost forever.

Of the remaining films, both before 1949 and those after, only the major or minor hits or classics seem to be kept in a position to be exhibited in any form. So many of the non-hits or non-classics would require a huge amount of work and research to bring them to TV or the home video market (searching for the best elements, restoring those elements to a watchable condition, etc.) that most rights holders feel it isn't worth it to spend the money for what would be a modest return.

Until the last few of decades, film preservation was not a priority even among studios and filmmakers. Richard Brooks told me that when he filmed the tent-fire scene in Elmer Gantry that he used old films taken from the vault to hang in the folds of the tent to make the fire burn more quickly and spread more dramatically. He said he never even gave it a thought as to what those films might have been that were forever burned that day. Of course, this was in the 80's when he was telling the story and he felt awful about it, but the damage was done.

Another major reason is the surplus of film product today. Some of those older studio films used to be shown on TV up through mid-1970's. Then with the explosion of made-for-cable television and the home video market there was always something "newer" or "fresher" to screen. No need to dip into the old stock. Especially nowadays when you hear so many young people say they will never watch anything in Black & White. :roll:

The positive side is, many of the older films are being preserved today and several studios are actively putting out as much of their (restored) catalogue on DVD as possible. Warner Bros. and 20th Century Fox are both leading the way in that regard.

But even still, many of the films listed in those books will never again see the light of day. Not enough people want to see them to warrant the work it would take, even if they (miraclulously) still exist in some cases.
"I wouldn't bring up Paris if I were you. It's poor salesmanship."
- Rick Blaine, Casablanca

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dayniac
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Unread post by dayniac »

John -- thanks for the statistics on the loss of classic films. Very sad that we've lost so many wonderful films. There are so many movies I remember seeing on tv while growing up in the 50's and 60's...so many of them only a memory now. Thank goodness there is a restoration movement now, at least some will be saved.

Thanks again !
Toni
We cannot change the cards we are dealt - just how we play the hand --- Randy Pausch

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Jas1
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Unread post by Jas1 »

Thanks John for that, it is very sad though, isn't it? Thank God Doris was such a hit and more or less all her films are out there in one form or another.

On a different note - I bought a Ginger Rogers dvd collection recently- have only watched one in full so far - can't even remember the title, but it was a kind of film noir from 1955 where Ginger was wearing a kind of short DD hairstyle of the time. She played a jailed ganger's moll that she played so very well. - Just checked title= 'Tight spot'.
I started to watch the adorable Bachelor Mother where Ginger was so similar to Doris[looks,style and mannerisms]- [Ginger was a natural in comedy too]. Ginger in this 1939 film looks so similar to Doris Day in 'Its a Great Feeling' and 'My Dream Is Yours' - when Doris has her longer hair tied back. It is easy to see the influence Ginger had on Doris although there is no doubt Doris Day was her own person,and so unique at that.

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Ralph
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Ginger, Ginger

Unread post by Ralph »

Loved Ginger Rogers. She was apart of one of my all-time favorite movies, "Stage Door" with Katharine Hepburn, Lucille Ball, Eve Arden, Ann Miller and Constance Collier ("My dear, are you in the theatre?")

This is the movie where Kate utters those famous lines, "The Calla Lillies are in bloom again..."

Ginger worked well with all of the other actresses in the movie and even the men (Jack Carson, Adolph Menjou). Just think, four of these actors later worked with Doris.

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Unread post by webmaster »

"Julie" - must I go where he leads me?
Though it promises extacy
Day and night he is calling me
But I'm afraid to go.."

I love Fred & Ginger - I love all those old films. A lot of them are in the 'public domain' (they don't belong to the studios anymore) and you can download and keep legit, which I do all the time - and some not so legit :wink: Purely in the interest of research of course, as the Japanese say about their whaling.
For me (almost) the older the better but especially 30s, 40s and 50s. The 60s were cool but I hate the 70s, everyone had too much big hair and it was like a party from the 60s that went on too long. I think that's why I'm not keen on The Doris Day Show, as much as I love her, it's not really my 'cup of tea'.
But I love watching creaky old black and white films on my computer while someone else is watching "The Departed", for example, on a colour widescreen TV in the next room. (I watched that the other night, it was good (eventually) but it was like a bloodbath ballet and my tension level was rising so high I had to look way for a lot of it.)
I've been watching some old Bob Hope films recently, My Favourite Brunette, The Cat & the Canary, etc. I love all those old haunted house, etc films.
I'm not saying I don't like 'the films of today', of course I do, but I also like to escape to another time. 8)

John M
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Unread post by John M »

Be careful of the "public domain" idea though, Bryan. Ever since the expansion of the copyright periods, very little goes into public domain these days except by accident (which happens.) The old 56-year rule seldom applies anymore.
"I wouldn't bring up Paris if I were you. It's poor salesmanship."
- Rick Blaine, Casablanca

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Julie

Unread post by webmaster »

Yes, I think you need to do a bit of research first, John. But after that you can figure out what is really in the public domain, I was surprised to learn that "Charade" is.

Here's one list, plus you can download them:
http://www.publicdomaintorrents.com/nsh ... tegory=ALL

And Wikipedia's take on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain


"Warm are his arms,
Tender his kiss
But in his eyes
Hidden, the danger lies
Julie...."

John M
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Unread post by John M »

Here's an article on the Copyright Extension Act. Any covered movie that was made in 1923 or after won't go into public domain until 2019 or after (depending on the initial copyright date.)

Here and there some end up in public domain by accident (as did Charade and a few episodes of certain tv series like "The Lucy Show" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show") but the vast majority of classics are still covered by copyright today. And will be for at least 11 years more if they were made in 1923.
"I wouldn't bring up Paris if I were you. It's poor salesmanship."
- Rick Blaine, Casablanca

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Ralph
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At Last, Starlift

Unread post by Ralph »

I'm just happy people will finally get the chance to see "Starlift." It's not a Doris Day film. Day and others like Cagney, Roman, Mayo and Gordon have cameos visiting an air force base. Day is cute as hell, but the real stars of the picture are Janice Rule and Dick Haggerty, I think his name was. It's about a romance and a soldier leaving his girl behind. Something like that. Dick Wesson is also in it.

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